Joey Reiman is CEO and founder of BrightHouse. Over the past 25 years, Joey has worked with leadership at The Coca-Cola Company, Procter & Gamble, McDonald’s and Newell Rubbermaid, and has emerged as one of the nation’s foremost visionaries and leading authorities on thinking and marketing. He is the best-selling author of several books, including Thinking for a Living and, more recently, The Story of Purpose: The Path to Creating a Brighter Brand, a Greater Company, and a Lasting Legacy. He is also a world-renowned speaker who provides listeners with the inspiration and foresight needed to become leaders of the future.
A graduate of Brandeis University, Joey has won more than 500 creative awards in national and international competitions, including the Cannes Film Festival. He also teaches a course on “Ideation” as an adjunct professor of the Goizueta Business School at Emory University. Joey is a librettist, author, soul man, professor, iconoclast, screenwriter, speaker, and jump roper. He is a father, husband and Famillionaire who lives in Atlanta with his wife and two sons.
To read Part 1 of my interview of him, please click here.
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Morris: When and why did you decide to write Thinking for a Living?
Reiman: The world was ad rich and idea poor. I was making some if the best ads on the planet, winning hundreds of awards and having a great time. But something was wrong. I was getting paid to execute my ideas rather than come up with them. The advertising model was always based on media spend. Then the creative was thrown in free. What kind if model is that? I thought, what if I were to be paid for raw but vital ideas. Ideas that as Steve Jobs would later say, “put a dent in the universe.” and what if I sold these idea to visionaries rather than ad directors? I shuttered my multi-million dollar ad agency and built a consultancy with nine of the nest thinkers on the planet. Thinking For A Living tells this story and lays down the tenants of great thinking.
Morris: Were there any head-snapping revelations while writing it? Please explain.
Reiman: Yes, that what I was writing about was truly revolutionary. I remember sitting with the head if one of the largest agency group on earth. After I told him about this idea I had called “ideation” he looked at me as if my cheese had fallen off the cracker. He feels very differently about me today as many of his biggest clients seek BrightHouse counsel.
Morris: To what extent (if any) does the book in final form differ significantly from what you originally envisioned?
Reiman: Writing a book allows you to write new chapters in your own life. While writing Thinking For A Living, I realized that some ideas were indeed bigger than others–the largest being purpose. That insight would set my course and career for the next eighteen years.
Morris: I commend you on your skill with regard to formulation of chapter titles. They evoke questions that alert readers to your key points. For example, how did the most money you “never made” teach how to think for a living? (Chapter 1)
Reiman: In advertising, you win business by presenting great ideas but you are only paid when you execute them. The most money I never made was about winning the Days Inn business with a big idea. Though I won the business, the hotel’s leadership wanted a different agency than mine. They asked if they could buy the idea for a lot of money. But my ego got the best of me and I said no. They acquiesced and I got the account. A year later my CFO told me that we had made about 100k on the account. If I had let them pay just for the idea, my agency would have made a fortune. From that day forward I would have no reservations a hefty idea fee from another hotel company.
Morris: Here’s another: How did the “scariest experience” of your life teach you “thinking is about a lot more than thought”? (Chapter5)
Reiman: As I lay in a hospital room in Rome, I learned about the power of ideas—that thought had wings. My thinking would lead to my first book SUCCESS.THE ORIGINAL HANDBOOK. In this work, I shared my journey to recovery with 5 tenants that correlated with your five fingers. Br THUMBS up. POINT at to your purpose. Give your MIDDLE FINGER to fear. March FORTH and LITTLE things mean a lot.
Morris: And another: How best to create a “thinking company”? (Chapter 7)
Reiman: Here I outline what it takes to build a more thoughtful company. They say that money talks. But people think. And that’s your real asset. I think the term “human resources” is an obscenity. People are not resources to be used up. We should rename our HR function: HUMAN RESOURCEFULNESS.
Morris: I agree wholeheartedly with you about “the centrality of creative ideas in modern life and how to nurture and foster and create ones that will revitalize” one’s business, family, and being, “and in the most profound way, our whole society.” To what extent is your book a “road map” for that process?
Reiman: THINKING FOR A LIVING is more a compass. The roadmap would come in my next book, THE STORY OF PURPOSE.
Morris: With all does respect to Archimedes, I agree with Isaac Asimov: “The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not ‘Eureka!’ (I found it!) but ‘That’s funny…’” Your own thoughts about all this?
Reiman: With all due respect to Issac Asimov, I believe in celebration of thought. Yes, all eurekas are preceded with a ‘that’s funny” but the elation I feel occurs when I find that the missing thought is so overwhelming that I have to walk away from what I have just discovered.
Morris: You devote Chapter 2 to a discussion of what your characterize as “The Golden Age of Ideas.” When was it and what are its defining characteristics?
Reiman: Machines ran the Industrial Age. The industrious Age of Ideas will be run by our minds.
Morris: However different great thinkers throughout history may be in most respects, they do share certain characteristics in common. You suggest nine. Which of them can almost anyone acquire or develop? Please explain.
Reiman: BIG THINKERS ARE ON FIRE: Find your purpose and you will ignite your passion. Once lit, fan it and your ideas will catch fire. BIG THINKERS NEVER LOSE IN THEIR IMAGINATION: Worry is a form of atheism. Use your faith. BIG THINKERS BET THE FARM: Creativity is the destination but courage is the journey. What’s the worst that can happen if you take a risk? Whatever your answer, its no where near as bad as not taking the risk. BIG THINKERS MARINATE IN THOUGHT: Wonder? Leads to Wonder! Remember in grammar school when you got the points for how you got to the answer rather than the answer. Life till works that way. BIG THINKERS THINK BETTER TOGETHER: No one has ever done something great alone. You need two people in your life—a soul mate for life and a goal mate for business. BIG THINKERS DON’T TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER: Meet every no with a yes. It’s a bigger word. BIG THINKERS TURN REALITY INTO FANTASY. Imagine the way the world ought to be. Now move there. BIG THINKERS LIVE THEIR LIVES ON PURPOSE. If you have a why, you can deal with any what, who, where or when. BIG THINKERS THINK WITH THEIR HEART: the brain runs everything but the heart runs the brain.
Morris: In your opinion, what has been the single most significant change in workplace culture since Thinking for a Living was first published in 1998? Please explain.
Reiman: Respect for better ideas and the people who have them.
Morris: In your opinion, what will be the single most significant change during (let’s say) the next 3-5 years? Please explain.
Reiman: Today currency is the idea but tomorrow’s ideas will be the currency.
Morris: When and why did you decide to write The Story of Purpose?
Reiman: I wrote THE STORY OF PURPOSE so that people would never have to work again. Instead of getting a job they could heed their calling. If enough people did this the world would be a lot happier.
Morris: In the Introduction, Phil Kotler refers to “the societal benefit that organizations are capable of delivering when they believe they have a greater responsibility in the world.” For example?
Reiman: When Sony founder, Akio Morita was presented a strategy for his fledgling company, it read “to be the best technology company in Japan.” He changed it to “Japan being the best technology country in the world.” If you want to find your purpose, look beyond yourself.
Morris: Please explain your reference, in the Preface, to “the most exciting time and place in business
Reiman: For the first time in history, business is part of every human endeavor. As the largest sector on the planet business has a responsibility to protect and nurture those living on it.
Morris: In September of 1978, after Israel’s Prime Minister Menachem Begin and Egypt’s President Anwar Sadat agreed to several accords during meetings at Camp David, they were asked to explain why they were able to reach those agreements, given the fact that their respective countries had been bitter and bloody enemies for thousands 0f years. Prime Minister Begin replied, “We did what all wise men do. We began at the end.” In my opinion, Prime Minister Begin offers excellent advice to leaders of organizations that need to become purpose-driven. Do you agree?
Reiman: Prime Minister Begin is correct in that to begin in the end is to return to the beginning—both are states of peace. As I like to say, “the fruits are in the roots.”
Morris: Throughout history, organizations (what6ever their size and nature may be) have been “purpose-driven.” For example, to become the largest, most profitable, and dominant in their competitive marketplace, etc. In your opinion, are these self-serving purposes and social responsibility mutually exclusive or, in fact, [begin italics] interdependent [end italics]? Please explain.
Reiman: Bigger is better. Google, Apple, Whole Foods and GE are all big companies with purpose whose leaders also believe that better is bigger.
Morris: You affirm the need to “put humanity back in business” when, in fact, [begin italics] human beings [end italics] conduct business. Are you suggesting that people in the business world need to become more humane? Please explain.
Reiman: Business people need to take on the biggest client in the world: society.
Morris: Given your response to the previous question, how best to “put humanity back in business”
Reiman: There are seven billion people on earth. Business serves about a third. It’s time we take care of the rest, not just the best. That will mean multinationals making more goods, more available to more people.
Morris: By which criteria would companies be selected to comprise what you characterize as the “Purpose 500”?
Reiman: Alignment and advocacy around a purposes that make a positive net contribution to societal well-being.
Morris: For those who have not as yet read The Story of Purpose, in Chapter 2, you list and discuss William A. Burke III’s “inventory” of five tools. What are they and what is the primary purpose of each?
Reiman: HAMMER HOME PURPOSE EVERYDAY: Purpose is not a check the box proposition. It needs to be lived everyday. Is your purpose driving everything you do? NAIL YOUR VALUES. Your company values are directives for how we should act everyday. Can you name them? CHISEL YOUR TALENT. Your greatest assets are your associates. What are you doing to inspire the best purpose in them? BOLT TOGETHER THE ORGANIZATION: Alignment and advocacy are the hallmarks of purpose? MEASURE PURPOSE: We grow the way we are measured. Are your assessments and rewards based on purpose?
Morris: Which of the five tools seems to be most difficult to master? Why?
Reiman: HAMERING HOME PURPOSE EVERYDAY: It’s hardest because for many organizations purpose is a distraction rather than an attraction.
Morris: What are the defining characteristics of a purposeful leader?
Reiman: FAITH, FAMILY AND FEARLESSNESS.
Morris: When explaining how to develop a Master Idea, you identify nine key principles. Please explain the essence of each. First, it is “timeless”
Reiman: Master Ideas don’t come and go, they come and stay. Unlike a tagline, a Master Idea transcends timelines because it is a fundamental, enduring human truth.
Morris: It “teaches.”
Reiman: Master Ideas are generative
Morris: It “fulfills’
Reiman: Master Ideas fulfill a human desire within us.
Morris: It is a “battle cry”
Reiman: Master Ideas are rallying cries from the heart.
Morris: In an Aristotelian sense, it is based on ethos”
Reiman: Master Ideas are symbols of your character
Morris: It is “transformative”
Reiman: Master Ideas create movements.
Morris: It “inspires”
Reiman: Master Ideas awaken our spirits
Morris: Finally, it is born from “absolute conviction”
Reiman: Not data driven. Rather, purpose -driven.
Morris: What is a WOW Strategy and what specifically can it help to achieve? HOW?
Reiman: WOW is an acronym for WORK ON WHY. If you know why you are doing something it makes what otherwise might be banal mean something greater.
Morris: On Page 83-84, you discuss what you characterize as “The Three Ws of Strategy.” What are they and why is each so important?
Reiman: Who am I selling? You know your market. What am I selling? You know your product. Why am I selling? You know your reason beyond profit.
Morris: They remind me of three questions that venture capitalists tend to ask those who seek funding. The first two are easy: “Who are you?” and “What do you do?” The third is by far the most challenging: “Why should I care?” My own opinion is, unless and until people care, no strategy (even one formulated by Michael Porter) will succeed. Your own thoughts about all this?
Reiman: If the purpose is wrong, the strategy can’t be right. People are meaning motivated creatures. So, no meaning, no money.
Morris: Again, for those who have not as yet read The Story of Purpose, you include a discussion of Joseph Campbell’s narrative, The Hero’s Journey. What is the specific relevance of this journey to the process by which the leaders of an organization enable it to become purpose-driven?
Reiman: All companies are just ordinary until they discover their purpose. The hero’s journey is about ordinary persons getting an extraordinary opportunity to become who they were meant to be. But first they must take the call. Although the challenges are great, in the end the hero brings back a boon to society.
Morris: In your opinion, why is [begin italics] illustration [end italics] so important attracting and then [begin italics] sustaining [end italics] support for one’s organization?
Reiman: Purpose without actions is useless.
Morris: What is the “Camelot Matrix” and, at least potentially, what are its most valuable benefits?
Reiman: There are four kinds of companies. Plantations: that neither run well nor have purpose. Castles in the Sky: which have great purpose and not run well. Fortresses: Superbly managed but have no greater purpose on earth other than to make money. And finally, Camelots. These are companies that have both operational excellence and soulful excellence.
Morris: What are the defining characteristics of a Millennium Development Goal (MDG)? How best to formulate and then achieve one?
Reiman:
1. Eradicate extreme poverty and hunger
2. Achieve universal primary education
3. Promote gender equality and empower women
4. Reduce child mortality
5. Improve maternal health
6. Combat HIV/AIDS, malaria, and other diseases
7. Ensure environmental sustainability
8. Develop a global partnership for development
CEO of American Standard, Jay Gould, is raising the standard of world sanitation by installing latrine systems in Bangladesh in exchange for purchasing American Standard’s bath fixtures in the United States. Think of it as the “toms for johns” business model.
Morris: What is “the best business model on Earth”? How so?
Reiman: The best business model on Earth is the one that we learned from earth. Using nature as a model, mentor, and measure, we will finally understand that business, like us, is part of something larger. We are all inter-connected. When business realizes it is part of an interdependent network and not a competitive one, the world will truly be one.
Morris: Were there any head-snapping revelations while writing it? Please explain.
Reiman: The most mind-boggling revelation in my work is my surprise that not every company on earth is seeking greater purpose. Why wouldn’t they if the results would be more engaged associates, more profits, a positive place in history, and a better world today.
Morris: To what extent (if any) does the book in final form differ significantly from what you originally envisioned?
Reiman: It is better but not complete. The next chapter will be written by my readers.
Morris: Let’s say that a CEO has read and then (hopefully) re-read Thinking for a Living and The Story of Purpose and wants to develop programs for the given organization’s decision-makers that will help them think more clearly and with a greater sense of purpose. As you express it, to “put a dent in the world.” Where to begin?
Reiman: Please email me: jreiman@thinkbrighthouse.com.
Morris: For more than 25 years, it has been my great pleasure as well as privilege to work closely with the owner/CEOs of hundreds of small companies, those with $20-million or less in annual sales. In your opinion, of all the material you provide in Thinking for a Living and The Story of Purpose, which do you think will be of greatest value to leaders in small companies? Please explain
Reiman: I am paid millions to make billions for the companies I work for. The Story of Purpose is under $30 and provides many of the insights and answers from my 30-year journey.
Morris: Which question had you hoped to be asked during this interview – but weren’t – and what is your response to it?
Reiman: This is the most thorough interview that I have ever experienced. You are a master at questions, many of which are better than my answers.
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Joey invites you to check out the resources at these websites:
Joey’s website
BrightHouse home page
Joey’s Amazon page
Goizueta faculty page
LinkedIn page