David Harder on employee engagement: Part 1 of an interview by Bob Morris

In 1990, David Harder founded Inspired Work, dedicated to helping individuals transform their relationship to work. Today, Inspired Work has over 43,000 graduates from all walks of life.

Harder has served as a change agent in a wide variety of organizations including The Walt Disney Company, HBO, Sony Pictures Entertainment, Loyola Marymount University, University of Southern California, The United Church of Religious Science, Morgan Stanley, Smith Barney, Baxter Healthcare, The Art Institute of America and many others.

Inspired Work’s engagement, leadership, career development and learning programs produce some of the worlds most outstanding satisfaction numbers in any business: 92.6% out of a hundred. David’s articles are syndicated online and reach over 6 million readers. He is a popular keynote speaker regarding human capital, change, and careers in the future of work.

His latest book, The Workplace Engagement Solution : Find a Common Mission, Vision and Purpose with All of Today’s Employees, describes how to build the skills that support engagement and personal change in all workers, from beginners to CEOs. It was published by Career Press (August 2017).

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Before discussing
The Workplace Engagement Solution, a few general questions. First, who has had the greatest influence on your personal growth? How so?

To some degree, I am a product of mentors. And, I can’t state one person had the greatest influence. Phil Cohen, a music professor at Concordia University taught me how to unlearn, a process of letting go of old beliefs and behaviors to make room for the new. Cherie Carter-Scott, introduced me to the power of Socratic process, the most dignified and powerful way to produce change in others. Bob Maurer, the Director of Behavioral Science at UCLA Medical School taught me the science of success behavior. Jack Canfield introduced me to the publishing industry. There are many more. I introduce our clients to the value and power of mentorship. Most are happy to have one, I advocate getting all the help that we need.


Years ago, was there a turning point (if not an epiphany) that set you on the career course you continue to follow? Please explain.

In 1990, I was running a staffing company in Los Angeles. At night, I was performing as a jazz musician in clubs. I did both so that I could live in Malibu until I got a record contract. I also became a facilitator for two human potential organizations. Early that year, I got a record contract. Six weeks into the project, my producer suddenly died from a heart attack. That became a turning point of deeply questioning my life, what I wanted it to stand for, and by the end of that summer, we delivered our first program. The results of that program became the turning point.

To what extent has your formal education been invaluable to what you have accomplished in life thus far?

I don’t have a “formal” education! I dropped out of the University of Southern California in my junior year because my father wouldn’t support my becoming a musician. I was sad about that for many years. The embarrassment that I had about that event led to my becoming a voracious reader. For the last 27 years I have had a graduate school unlike any other. To date, over 43,000 people have come through our programs. The curriculum pushes many to open up about their careers, aspirations, missing skill sets, beliefs, behaviors, and challenges. As a result of our work with organizations like Loyola Marymount University and The Walt Disney Company in leadership, USC became our client. They treat me as such a rock star at the school that any remnants of that wound are gone.

The thread I want all readers to hear is that today’s and tomorrow’s workplace belongs to active learners. I am working on a new book to bring changes to the way we prepare young people for the future of work. Today, being successful requires constant updates and personal change. That will not happen if we put a degree on the wall and stop the growth process.

What do you know now about the business world that you wish you knew when you went to work full-time for the first time? Why?

One of my clients asked me to conduct final interviews for a new COO. She walked in when I was asking the successful candidate the last question, “What is the biggest mistake you ever made professionally and what did you learn from it?” When he left, the CEO said, “That was a great question. How would you have answered it?” I responded, “The biggest mistake I made was taking a job.” I respect people who take jobs but I was always cut out to own a business.

Of all the films that you have seen, which – in your opinion – best dramatizes important business principles? Please explain.

Like mentors, I can’t just name one. Psycho demonstrates the importance of avoiding nepotism in small business. Titanic is a perfect illustration of corporate hubris. Dunkirk is a tremendous example of engagement – throwing away the script and living in the moment. The Devil Wears Prada is the perfect example of why the boss is the single most important reason you’ll love or hate a job. I was deeply impacted by Warren Beatty’s Reds, a biopic about John Reed, the journalist who went to Russia to witness the birth of Communism. I’m drawn to people who listen to their heart, step outside of the box, and search for their definition of integrity.

Here are several of my favorite quotations to which I ask you to respond. First, from William L. McKnight (in 1924): “If you put fences around people, you get sheep. Give people the room they need.”

I love this quote. You need to give freedom to people but today, we also need to give them new skills. Clearly, our workplace needs an entirely new approach to the issue of being competitive and engaged. But, McKnight’s point-of-view is a necessary beginning.

From Thomas Edison: “Vision without execution is hallucination.”

I love the quote. It is similar to mine, “The world’s mental institutions are filled with creative thinkers.” In my book, we spend a lot of time exploring how we need to become healthier in how we use and respond to fear. Creative thinking is not creativity. Real creativity requires that we take action. Action is also the purpose of fear. Unfortunately, what we believe about fear is what so often gets in the way.

Of all the greatest leaders throughout history, with which one would you most like to be closely associated for an extended weekend of one-on-one conversation? Why?

John F. Kennedy. I was a little boy when he was killed. But, his words impacted me in life-changing ways. Kennedy was the last president who promoted personal accountability to the American people. In our last elections, candidates from all parties patronized the American worker by promising a return to the past. Kennedy was the type of leader who would have most likely told us that our country has the greatest talent pool on the face of the earth.

However, at least half of our people characterize themselves as underemployed. Research indicates that means half of our people are not keeping up with change. We need leaders who tell the truth and inspire us to take action. Kennedy didn’t use focus groups and he had the courage to hold us accountable for results. It seems Americans have made it very clear that they want comforting promises rather than the truth.

Most change initiatives either fail or fall far short of original (perhaps unrealistic) expectations. More often than not, resistance is cultural in nature, the result of what James O’Toole so aptly characterizes as “the ideology of comfort and the tyranny of custom.”

Initiatives fail because they don’t go far enough. The CEO comes to human resources and tells them to fix the engagement problem. That means the CEO is now disengaged from the culture. We take surveys, which only make managers feel more inadequate. Consultants blame leaders for the culture problem which perpetuates development for only the top people.

How best to avoid or overcome such resistance?

Getting an individual or a team into one of our two-day program is urgent for us. Why? Because when we instill dramatic and positive personal change within one person, they realize how important it is to follow-through on their aspirations. When we expand positive and personal change to a team, the energy is even greater. Resistance is typically about fear, which we protect with cynicism and contempt. Most people are afraid of change because they believe they will lose something. We give people change experiences that become positive turning points in their lives. Why is this so important? The acceleration of change has reached such epic proportions that it is time for all individuals and all organizations to shift gears and fly forward.

What are the defining characteristics of a workplace culture within which personal growth and professional development are most likely to thrive?

The CEO or business owner leads the culture and recognizes active growth is key to being successful. The resources are provided to give everyone the skills to succeed. Mentorship keeps the expenses at bay and produce a deeply connected culture.

Looking ahead (let’s say) 3-5 years, what do you think will be the greatest challenge that CEOs will face? Any advice?

Employee disengagement is a symptom of our inability to change. If today’s average worker is out of sync with change, the next ten years will introduce the kind of transformation that brings life-changing opportunities to those that learn how to reinvent and will cast aside people who go back to the default of seeking safety and comfort.

Right now, Gallup’s latest global engagement survey indicates that only 13% of the world’s workers are engaged. If we have these numbers today, how on earth will an organization recruit enough people to drive them forward, especially towards category leadership.

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David invites you to check out the resources at these websites:

Inspired Work website link

The Amazon link to The Workplace Engagement Solution

BIZCATALYST 360 website link

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