Alain Hunkins on Cracking the Leadership Code: An Interview by Bob Morris

A sought-after keynote speaker, facilitator and coach, Alain Hunkins is a leadership expert who connects the science of high performance with the performing art of leadership. Leaders trust him to help unlock their potential and expand their influence, leading to superior results, increased engagement, higher levels of retention, and greater organizational and personal satisfaction. He has a gift for translating complex concepts from psychology, neuroscience and organizational behavior into simple, practical tools that can be applied on the job.

Over the course of his 20+ year career, Alain has worked with tens of thousands of leaders in over 25 countries, and served clients in all industries, including 42 Fortune 100 companies. He delivers dynamic keynotes, seminars, and workshops covering a variety of leadership topics including communication, teambuilding, conflict management, peak performance, motivation, and change.

With his Master’s in Fine Arts in Acting from the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee’s Professional Theater Training Program, and a BA from Amherst College, Alain also serves on the faculty of Duke Corporate Education, ranked #2 worldwide in 2018 by Financial Times on its list of customized Executive Education programs. Alain has  lectured at UNC Kenan-Flagler’s business school and Columbia University.

Alain has authored over 400 articles, and been published by The Association for Talent Development, CEO Refresher, and the American Management Association.

A certified co-leader for ManKind Project International, a non-profit whose mission is to help men lead lives of service to their families, communities, and workplaces, he’s based in Northampton, MA, with his wife and two children.

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Q: Before discussing Cracking the Leadership Code, a few general questions. First, was there a turning point (if not an epiphany) years ago that set you on the career course you continue to follow? Please explain.

A: When I was twenty-five years old, I went to a personal development weekend workshop that was truly transformational. I came away from that weekend with a clear mission in my life: To create a vibrant alive world by kindling the fire of brilliance in people. I also came away from it incredibly empowered to work towards making changes and creating a life (and career) that I envisioned. I started volunteering with the organization that sponsored the workshop. This work led me into teaching leadership to others- first to kids in NYC high schools, and then shifting to working with professionals in organizations.

Q: Who and/or what have had the greatest impact on the development of your thoughts about leadership development? How so?

A: One of the biggest influences on my thinking on leadership development has been the book The Leadership Challenge, by Jim Kouzes and Barry Posner. Before I read the book, I unconsciously believed in the “Great Man” theory of leadership. Leaders that I admired were people like Martin Luther King, Mahatma Gandhi, and Nelson Mandela. The Leadership Challenge democratized leadership for me. It took leadership down off the pedestal and shared specific, detailed examples of everyday people leading. It shared the behavioral principles and patterns that effective leaders have in common. It showed me that great leaders are made, not born. It also gave me a road map to show how leadership skills could be developed. This framework inspired me to keep working in this field.

Q: Here are several of my favorite quotations to which I ask you to respond. First, from Lao-tse’s Tao Te Ching:

“Learn from the people
Plan with the people
Begin with what they have
Build on what they know
Of the best leaders
When the task is accomplished
The people will remark
We have done it ourselves.”

A: I love this Lao-tse quote because it captures the essence of what I call facilitative leadership. The word facilitate comes from the same root as the French word facile which means easy. “Building on what they know” touches on a principle I use frequently when I coach coaches and leaders—meet people where they are at. By finding that common connection, it’s so much easier to take people on a journey. You earn the right to be a trusted guide on the journey. When the best leaders make things so easy, their work becomes invisible. People are left thinking that they’ve done it themselves.

Q: From Michael Porter: “The essence of strategy is choosing what [begin italics] not [end italics] to do.”

A: Porter’s quote cuts to the heart of decision making. Humans are gifted with 360-degree potential of possibilities. This panorama of possibilities needs to be limited through the act of saying no. Great strategy is the ability to reject things that will not lead us to our desired outcome. Choosing what not to do is an intentional process of disqualifying those options that will lead us astray.

Q: From Alvin Toffler: “The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn.”

A: Toffler’s quote predates the popular idea of a “Growth Mindset”, from the work the Carol Dweck. We live in a VUCA world (volatile, uncertain, complex and ambiguous) where the only constant seems to be the increasing speed of change. Toffler saw how a knowledge-based economy would become the new normal, and the key to success in this new world would be our ability to keep learning and adapting.

Q: From H.L. Mencken “To every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.”

A: One of the default settings of the human condition is that we can only focus on one thing at a time. Because we only see one thing, we crave a single, visible solution to our problems. This is magical thinking. Complexity involves depth, and depth means things exist below the surface, where we can’t see them. Systems thinking—seeing how different parts interconnect and relate to each other—is key to solving complex problems. It’s also essential to effective leadership.

Q: From  Maya Angelou: “I’ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.”

A: Angelou profoundly touches on the core of what it means to be human. As much as we like to think we are rational beings that feel, we’re much more feeling beings who think. At its core, leadership is a relationship between two human beings. Smart leaders know that how we feel is the biggest driver of how we perform.

Q: From Thomas Edison: “Vision without execution is hallucination.”

A: Results come from action. I often tell leaders that the map is not the territory, and the menu is not the meal. You can have a great vision, and be proud of your map-making skills, but until you and your team venture out into the territory, nothing’s happened. It’s so important for leaders to translate ideas into behaviors: If we want to achieve something, what do we need to do? Who’s going to do what? By when? By breaking things down into their component actions, you set in motion the flywheel of momentum and progress.

Q: From Theodore Roosevelt: “People won’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.”

A: So many of us have been educated to be smart. If we did well in school, we got good at how to win the smart game. This works in a school setting, but as soon as we move outside the school walls, the real world doesn’t prioritize knowledge in the same way. Out here, we need to build relationships where people get to know us, like us, and trust us. Many organizations are filled with very smart people who haven’t made the leap to recognizing that caring for people should be their first order of business.

Q: Finally, from Peter Drucker: “There is surely nothing quite so useless as doing with great efficiency what should not be done at all.”

A: So many leaders and organizations suffer from the disease of chronic busy-ness. In their drive for results, they’re quick to add more to their already full plates, without recognizing what needs to come off those plates first. Craving the dopamine hit of the quick win, they don’t stop and consider if the ladder of progress they’re climbing is leaning against the proper wall.

Q: In your opinion, what are the defining characteristics of a workplace culture within which personal growth and professional development are most likely to thrive?

A: A workplace culture where development can thrive meets four human needs: Safety, Energy, Purpose and Ownership.

Safety: People don’t thrive when they feel at risk. They need to feel safe—physically and psychologically. People feel they can bring their whole selves to work. Their voices are heard and affirmed. They know it’s okay to say things like “I didn’t understand you” or “I need help.”

Energy: People need to be fueled physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually. A culture that energizes people supplies such fuel. For example, people have a place to check in about their lives outside of work, unnecessary interruptions are eliminated, and work is structured with variety and includes breaks for renewal.

Purpose: People want to feel that what they do is contributing to something greater than themselves. That what they do really matters. A culture that supports this need provides a line of sight between day-to-day activities and how our product/service makes a difference in the life of our customer. Leaders help employees connect their own personal sense of purpose to that of the larger organization.

Ownership: Adults have a great need to be self-directed. No wonder no one loves a micromanager. When people have the feeling of ownership and control over their environment, they feel better and they’re much more motivated to perform at their best. A culture which promotes freedom and autonomy taps into the power of creativity. Leaders need to provide a clear “what” is to be achieved. They should let people determine their own “how”.

Q: Looking ahead (let’s say) 3-5 years, what do you think will be the greatest challenge that CEOs will face? Any advice?

A: I think the biggest challenge that leaders face is also the biggest challenge that we face in society at large. Our world is getting faster and flatter, and as it does so, it becomes more volatile, uncertain, complex and ambiguous. We’re more and more reliant on digital technology to keep things running and keep us interconnected, and, with IoT and AI, this will only increase. So, in the forward march towards the future, how can leaders make sure that humans don’t get left behind?

Information travels at the speed of light, but human relationships travel much more slowly—at the speed of matter. Leaders need learn to successfully navigate this discrepancy of pace. They need to learn to understand and unleash the power of human technology as successfully as they have with digital technology.

A key to this will be a mind shift: prioritizing working with technology for the advancement of people, rather than prioritize working with people for the advancement of technology. Doing this will help us to address the challenges that our organizations, industries, and societies face.

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Q: Now please shift your attention to Cracking the Leadership Code. For those who have not as yet read it, hopefully your responses to these questions will stimulate their interest and, better yet, encourage them to purchase a copy and read the book ASAP. First, when and why did you decide to write it?

A: Every leader I know means well and intends to do a good job. But these intentions aren’t translating into reality. Unfortunately, the data consistently tells us that today’s leaders are not prepared to lead their employees in today’s world. Recent polls find that only 23% of people think their leaders lead well. Poor leadership results in disengagement, turnover, and diminished performance results. On the flip side, effective leadership leads to higher levels of profitability, productivity, retention, and customer satisfaction/loyalty.

As I worked with thousands of groups of leaders over the years, I saw patterns of behavior. It turns out the best leaders have a lot in common. They keep applying the same fundamental principles through a variety of actions. The mediocre leaders had a lot in common, too. They kept falling into the same traps.

I wrote the book because I wanted to help those 77% of leaders who are struggling. I wanted to help them adopt a new mindset and apply a new skillset in order to shorten their leadership learning curve and accelerate their growth. I want them to become the leaders they aspire to be.

Q: The subtitle refers to “three secrets” to building strong leaders: Connection, Communication, and Collaboration. Which of the three seems to be most difficult to master? Why?

A: It may seem counterintuitive, but connection is the most difficult to master. It’s also the foundational principle: Until one masters the ability to connect with others, it’s quite difficult to move on to effective communication and collaboration.

Connection is such a challenge because it takes a shift in mindset. Leaders need to move away from the identity of being the commander-in-chief and move towards the identity of facilitator-in-chief. Doing this takes humility. It’s not that easy to park one’s own ego and agenda and truly be present, focused and listening to those around you. Yet, that’s precisely what’s required in order to create meaningful connection.

Q: My own experience with helping organizations to accelerate personal growth and professional development of those who comprise their workforce indicates that all three are interdependent. Your own thoughts about that?

A: Yes. The model in the book that illustrates connection, communication and collaboration are three concentric circles. All of these principles transcend and include the other two. In many ways, that’s a good metaphor for how leaders need to embrace ambiguity and paradox in leading. Leading is not a linear, sequential, either/or endeavor. Leaders need embrace both/and thinking to lead effectively. In order to teach this content, I had to separate it out into the three sections and present them in a linear sequence for clarity. But in real life, all three are happening simultaneously.

Q: Throughout history, all great leaders — if viewed as gardeners — seem to have had a “green thumb” for “growing” countless new leaders. Here’s a two-part question. First, which specific values drive that development process?

A: New leaders grow when they are given the opportunity to stretch beyond their comfort zone. The values that leaders need to embody to nurture such growth include:

Curiosity—a drive to know what drives people and what their goals are. Interest in observing the growth process in others.

Trust- the ability to give opportunities for others to try new things and even fail.
Coaching—the ability to observe, assess, and give appropriate feedback to help foster growth.
Service- knowing that leadership is about helping others develop and succeed, rather than needing to look good.

Q: Also, what specific lessons can be learned from that process and then applied by supervisors (i.e. those with direct reports entrusted to their care) throughout the given enterprise?

A: To develop others, you must start with a mindset that others can and should be developed. If you see and treat people like cogs in the workplace machine, you will miss out on the potential that lies within. Creating a safe environment for people to step out and try something new is critical. Supervisors need to create such opportunities (and tailor them to each individual) if people are going to develop their own leadership capacity.

I agree with you that mutual trust and respect are essential to effective connection, communication, and collaboration but that [begin italics] empathy [end italics] is the basis or (if you prefer) foundation of those relationships. I know why I think so. What are your reasons?

At its core, leadership isn’t a job title. It’s a relationship between two human beings: A leader and a follower. In the industrial age, followers were expected to passively accept the commands of those in charge. Back then, the priorities were efficiency and conformity. Thinking for oneself was not encouraged. Henry Ford, founder of Ford motor company, famously said of his employees “Why is it when I want a pair of hands, they come with a brain attached?”

In today’s knowledge economy, the shift from manual labor to knowledge work has changed the nature of the leader/follower relationship. Following is a choice. Every day, skilled knowledge workers make a choice to loan (or withhold) their discretionary efforts. That choice is based on their perception of the relationship they have with their leader. Do they trust their leader and feel trusted by them? Do they feel safe being authentic? Is it okay to bring their whole selves to work?

It turns out there’s one leadership ability that’s required to increase this perception of safety and trust: Caring for the people you lead. Research has found that employees who say they have more supportive supervisors are 1.3 times as likely to stay with the organization and are 67 percent more engaged.

Caring for people isn’t just some warm and fuzzy idea. It’s a learned behavior. The skill is developed by consistently demonstrating empathy—showing people you understand them and care how they feel. Empathy is the platform on which connection is built.

Q: As you know, all of the major research studies reveal that, during a face-to-face interaction, about 80% of the impact is determined by tone of voice and body language; only about 20% (or less) is determined by what is actually said. What’s your take on that?

A: You’ve asked a controversial question! The research I think you’re referring to tends to all lead back to one original study that was done by Albert Mehrabian in 1967. That study is often cited in reference to what percentage of meaning is communicated by either words, tone of voice, or body language. It found that only 7% of the meaning is conveyed by words, 38% by tone of voice, and 55% by body language.

These results have gotten extremely popular and spread around the world. There’s just one small problem: They’re wrong. Mehrabian himself spoken out numerous times to debunk how his work has been misinterpreted.

The original study wasn’t focused on the meaning transferred in communication. It sought to identify the emotional intent understood in communication. And it did so by asking an audience to listen to only one word and determine the intent. The word spoken by the confederate in the study described their own feelings.

So while I agree that body language and tone of voice matter, so do words. When it comes to communication what you say is vital—it’s your content. How you say it—your delivery—is also important. I prefer to steer clear of saying which is more important and giving percentages. The fact is inadequate content or delivery can make your communication ineffective. Great leaders work at improving both of them.

Q: Here’s a question I have been eager to ask you since I began to read Cracking the Leadership Code the first time.  I guess it was when I was in high school and president of the student council that I began to realize that most of the valuable wisdom I had gained by then was the result of my own failures or mistakes, not successes or from others’ successes or failures.

Here’s my question: To what extent (if any) does being able to “crack the leadership code” depend on the nature and extent of one’s own wisdom gained thus far?

A: Your description of wisdom gained through failures offers a great insight. Failures are a tremendous opportunity for potential growth. The reason I say “potential” is because to take advantage to the opportunity, you must be open to learning from the experience. That takes a certain level of humility and as Carol Dweck’s calls it, a growth mindset. If you are willing to learn, you can take that experience and reflect on what didn’t work and find a new course of action for the future.

Conversely, if you are rigid in your thinking and have a fixed mindset, you won’t learn much from the new experience. You’ll do what you did and get what you got. Thus, some people in a career wind up with twenty years of experience, and others wind up with one year of experience twenty times.

Q: You conduct “Killing Complexity” workshops. According to participants, what seem to be the greatest barriers when they attempt to apply your suggestions and recommendations?

A: Interestingly, when participants are asked to identify the greatest obstacles to simplifying their work, their first impulse is to point the finger outwards. They say things like “we work in a regulated industry” or “we have a matrix structure”. However, as we dig deeper in the process, the big epiphany is that most of the unnecessary complexity they experience at work is self-created and self-imposed. It comes from internal psychological states: fear, control, power, and ego.

Participants realize that the cultural norms in their organization keeps them stuck in a loop where complexity has become a signal of importance. For example, if a five slide PowerPoint deck is good, a 25-slide deck is five times as good. The ego has a need to impress, and the easiest way for that ego to impress is by adding on more bells/whistles and processes/procedures. These add-ons help the ego validate its own importance.

While complexity may serve the fickle ego, it makes getting to the work that matters a lot more challenging. We spend more time on low value activities. This complexity trap drains employees’ energy and enthusiasm. No wonder employee engagement is so low.

Q: Albert Einstein once urged, “Make everything as simple as possible but no simpler.” In the context of leadership development, you devote a separate and substantial chapter in the book to “Making Things Simple.” For those who have not as yet read your brilliant book, what are the key takeaways from this chapter?

A: Ironically, while we live during the period of history with the most advanced technology ever experienced on planet Earth, what do people crave most? Ease of use. For example, if you visit a website that’s confusing to navigate, what do you do? First, you get frustrated. Second, you leave. And you don’t come back.

We all want simple, and that includes the people you lead. If their daily work experience is unnecessarily complex, people will get frustrated. Not only does complexity drain morale, it drains performance. A typical frontline supervisor or midlevel manager works 47 hours per week. A survey found that of this time, he or she devotes 21 hours to meetings involving more than four people. Another 11 hours is spent processing e-communications. If you subtract time periods of less than 20 minutes between meetings or processing emails as “unproductive time,” it leaves them with less than 6½ hours per week of uninterrupted time to get work done.

The good news is that if you make simplicity part of your leadership operating system, you’ve got a competitive advantage. Research has found that in a “simple organization,” 95% of employees are more likely to trust their company’s leadership; 54% find it easier to innovate; 65% are more likely to refer someone to work at their company; and 84% of employees plan to stay longer in their job.

Many things can create unnecessary complexity, but there are two titans that play an outsized role in complicating the workplace: meetings and emails. They suck time and energy more than anything else. The chapter on “Making Things Simple” is filled with simple, practical tools to simplify meetings and emails.

Q: In your opinion, which of the material you provide in Cracking the Leadership Code will be most valuable to those now preparing for a career in business or who have only recently embarked on one? Please explain.

A: The book was expressly designed to help anyone who aspires to be a better leader to shorten their learning curve and accelerate their leadership growth. Whether someone is just preparing for a career in business or is the owner/CEO of a small-to-midsize company, I’d recommend starting with the first section of the book: Context. This section frames why leadership today is so challenging. It reveals that, despite your best intentions, you’ve undoubtedly inherited a mindset and patterns of behavior that conspire to impede your progress and success as a leader. These insights will inspire readers to want to learn more –both in the book and in general—on how to become a better leader.

Q: Which question had you hoped to be asked during this interview – but weren’t – and what is your response to it?

“What is the single best source for learning how to become an effective leader?”

The most valuable resource that will you help you grow can’t be found on the pages of a book. It’s getting honest, descriptive behavioral feedback on how you show up in your leadership by the people you lead. Humans are notoriously bad judges of the impact our behavior has on those around us. Stop trying to guess—and ask for feedback. If you need a structure for the feedback, consider using the +/EBI model. Plus means “what do you think I do well/is a strength/should keep doing?” EBI means “what would be even better if I did it differently in the future?” Ideally, the feedback steers clear of broad value judgments (e.g. “You’re a little unapproachable at times.”) and uses behavioral statements (eg. When you come into the office in the morning, you walk passed me and go straight to your desk, you don’t make eye contact, and you don’t stop and greet or acknowledge me in any way.”)

When you receive the feedback, your role is to be open and receptive to it in the moment. The only verbal response to offer is a “thank you” at the end. Then put the feedback in your file and compare it to the other data points you’ve received. What is trending? Then, create a plan of action for how you’re going to address an area for improvement. You can tell your feedbackers that you’re working on this skill—that way they can keep a lookout for how you’re doing and offer new feedback in the future. Acting on effective feedback will help you fast-track your own leadership growth.

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Alain cordially invites you to check out the resources at these websites:

His website link

Amazon link

YouTube link

Linkedin link

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